Intersections Series: Embracing the Heart of Jesus in Relationships w/Melanie Wilson

Speaker 1: 0:00

When I started to allow myself to be messy, to be vulnerable, to stumble over my words, to cry. That's when women started to say like okay, like I wanna know more, Like she gets it, I can see myself in her and she's got access to something that's changing her. What is it?

Speaker 2: 0:18

Helping you live brave, build community and pass on courageous faith to the girls around you. This is Be the Brave Ones podcast.

Speaker 3: 0:29

Hey everybody, it is Mandy here. We are back on the podcast Delaney. Isn't it so good to be back.

Speaker 2: 0:35

It is hey guys. Welcome back to the podcast. So excited you guys are here to join us too for this conversation. Thanks for being here.

Speaker 3: 0:42

Yes, in this new series that we're launching today, called Intersections, you guys are probably like, what does that mean, intersections? Like are we driving down the road? Like what's happening? Well, kind of, yeah, we're gonna be going on a journey with Paul the Apostle, walking through four meaningful stop and go moments in his life that led to deep community. And you guys, that is what we need, this is what God made us for, and we as a team at Brave Girls Gather have seen this struggle when it comes to connection and this day and age that we're living in and that's not how it's supposed to be. God's given us everything we need to connect meaningfully with others, to go and grow in deeper community with others, so we're so excited about the things that God has showed us. We can't wait to have these conversations and have you join us for them.

Speaker 2: 1:27

Yes, this series coming up you guys has so much in store for each one of us too, and I'm just, I'm excited for us to glean from this, from Paul's life, and to just see people in our lives Like we've never seen them before. So, without further ado, mandy, I'm ready to get started. What is this series all about? I mean, like, what does this have to do with us?

Speaker 3: 1:52

Well, what it has to do with us is our lives intersect with other people's lives. Our God is big enough to put us in front of people who he wants us to connect with, and I feel like we're so busy sometimes looking down right that we don't look up and we don't see the people that he's placed in front of us as, therefore, a reason, and I think that we're missing out. We're missing out on all the joy that he has for us, and I think there's actually three things that hinder us from growing in deeper community with others. Number one busyness. Number two, comfort, because it can be uncomfortable to step out of our comfort zone and connect with someone who we are new to meeting. And then also trust and vulnerability.

Speaker 3: 2:34

I feel like we've went through such craziness in our world that learning how to trust again is important, because if we don't get vulnerable with people, if we don't get honest with people, we're not gonna connect deep with them. So, through the series, we're gonna be going through Acts 9, the whole chapter, but in this conversation today we're gonna focus in on the first nine verses of Acts 9. Delaney, do you happen to have those up? I do.

Speaker 2: 2:58

This is Acts 9, verses 1 through 9? Yep 1 through 9. Meanwhile, saul was uttering threats with every breath and was eager to kill the Lord's followers. So he went to the High Priest. He requested letters addressed to the synagogues in Damascus asking for their cooperation in the arrest of any followers of the way you found there. He wanted to bring them, both men and women, back to Jerusalem in chains.

Speaker 2: 3:28

As he was approaching Damascus on this mission, a light from heaven suddenly shone down around him. He fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him "'Saul, saul, why are you persecuting me? "'who are you, lord', saul asked, and the voice replied "'I am Jesus, the one who you are persecuting. "'now get up and go into the city, "'and you'll be told what you must do'". The men with Saul stood speechless, for they heard the sound of someone's voice, but saw no one. Saul picked himself up off the ground, but when he opened his eyes he was blind. So his companions led him by the hand to Damascus, and he remained there, blind, for three days and did not eat or drink Epic.

Speaker 3: 4:09

Epic. So Saul was Paul everybody. He becomes Paul later, but this is who he was before he has this encounter with Jesus. He was Saul and he was giving murderous threats towards God's people. He was going and getting things signed so he could arrest them and imprison them and harm them and we're gonna find out later on. And if you already know the rest of the story, you know that he wrote most of the New Testament and the way that he talks to the people of God is with such incredible love and affection. You're like how could this guy have ever been that guy? And that's really what kind of stands out to me here today and what stood out to me, delaney, as we've looked at this, is the radical transformation that happened on the inside of Paul once he had that encounter with Jesus. What about you?

Speaker 2: 4:54

Yes, the first stop of Paul's life, really, because he had to stop. He was blinded by this light, he was confused by this voice. When he intersected with Jesus, everything changed and he had to have had this fear of who is. This, first of all, is what he asked. And then Jesus says I am Jesus, the one who you're persecuting. So I see that is not who Paul expected God to be.

Speaker 2: 5:23

Paul did not expect Jesus down that road, and so I think as we go through our own lives and as we follow the life of Paul through this series, like expect the unexpected, like Jesus is Jesus and the people around us, the people that Jesus put in our lives, the way that Jesus has ordained our lives and mapped it out for us to follow, is not gonna end up like how we expect it. And I think just going into life and every day, every moment, with that perspective of Lord whatever you have for me, I may have thought of it this way, but if it ends up this way, that's okay. I think that is just gonna bring us a lot of relief and peace and openness to who God has for us and what God has for us, and just room for the Lord to do wonderful things in us and through us, like he did with Paul.

Speaker 3: 6:15

I love that you point out to expect the unexpected. That's so good, delaney, and that's what I believe God wants us to do Expect the unexpected For Paul. He saw his faith as power to be wielded. He saw honoring God as killing people. He did not expect this Jesus to radically conform his heart into someone who would radically love these people the way that he was loving these people. I don't even believe that he was as a Jewish leader, that he was loving people the way that he was going to love people after he had this radical encounter with Jesus. It turned the whole kingdom upside down for him.

Speaker 3: 6:50

And I believe that there are some things in our lives that God wants to turn upside down if we're just open to it. And then also I was thinking about how the Trinity, like God, does his existence in community with the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. How much more is he going to call us to live that way? He's modeling it for us. And then also I was thinking recently about how in John, chapter one, it says that the word was made flesh and the flesh dwelt among us. So it's like the words of the pages of our Bible just kind of came off the Bible and they became this walking man, jesus, this walking God man on the earth that could talk and tell us about who God is and correct our hearts and places that needs to be corrected. And then Jesus died when he rose again and Jesus became a body and we are part of that body and there's no way that we can be a body with one part, like we were made to display Jesus and be Jesus on the earth by being together. He's called us into community. We can't live this faith alone. We have to do it together.

Speaker 3: 7:49

So, with no further ado, we are going to invite our new guest on. I'm going to be saying bye to Delaney because she has some things that she needs to take care of, and I'm going to be introducing you guys to our guest today. It's Melanie Wilson. You guys are going to love her. Melanie lives in Southwest Florida with her husband, where she enjoys caring for her horses at Full Circle Ranch. She's a girl, mom of two adult children, a bestselling author, speaker, coach and founder of she Will Rise, where she offers an intense one-on-one coaching program, annual retreats and equine therapy. Having emerged from a valley of anxiety, depression and trauma, she now seeks to extend a hand up to women looking to rise up from similar struggles. Melanie also has a degree in counseling and psychology, and that would be very evident to you if you were to read her bestselling book Unsilenced. Thank you so much, melanie, for joining us today. I'm so glad you're here, thank you.

Speaker 1: 8:44

I'm glad to be here. It's kind of crazy when you hear yourself being introduced. It's like is that really me? Like I never fully feel qualified, but that's exactly who God uses, so I love that. So thank you for such a beautiful introduction and the opportunity to have this just authentic, genuine. It is what it is conversation, whatever God wants. It's what's going to unfold today, so thank you for that.

Speaker 3: 9:06

I love it.

Speaker 1: 9:07

I love it.

Speaker 3: 9:07

Yes, he works through our weakness. He's that strength that when we say we can't, he says I can. And so I love that you're pointing that out. And so we are talking about connection and making meaningful connection with others and growing in deep community. And so we've been looking at the book of Acts, we're digging into chapter nine and we're looking at the conversion of Saul to Paul, and so in that, I want to start with a question about friendship, because when it comes to meaningful connection and deep community, I think we can learn something by reflecting on friendship, friends that we already have that connection with, like where did that come from? And so I want to start by asking you the question Tell us about one of your closest friends, like you know that friend where you can FaceTime them in your pajamas you don't care, you got the messy hair, the whole thing, and it just doesn't matter because they know you and you know them. Tell us about that friend and how you got to that point.

Speaker 1: 10:04

Unfortunately, I'm blessed with two of those. I have quite a few really dear, tender friendships with girlfriends, but there are two women that when you started to say like FaceTime Messahear in your pajamas, they came to mind. One of them is the best friend from high school, when I was a freshman, I believe we moved to a new neighborhood across the street from someone who was my age and it's like, oh gosh, here we are, high school. That's already awkward. And now I've got this neighbor. We're kind of the same age, like how is this going to play out? And we ended up connecting and just thoroughly loving each other and doing life together. And it has never changed. We are miles apart.

Speaker 1: 10:46

She's still in Delaware, I'm here in Southwest Florida, but at any moment we can send a quick text or a phone call or jump on FaceTime and be exactly who we are in that moment and there's just unconditional love, there is encouragement, there is laughter and those are the kinds of friendships that help us to truly live life. And I think as we grow into adulthood, our friendships start to evolve and we have to learn that it's okay to be authentic and vulnerable in friendships and the people who are meant to be with you in. That will stay and those who maybe don't have the capacity to serve in that way will move on and we have to be okay with that too. So Karen is one. You know, if I'm in the store and I see something strawberry shortcake you bet I'm sending her a quick shot. Hey, thinking of you, she sees my little pony, or oodles and noodles or just these little quirky things that you can just send an image and there's so much love that is communicated in that. You know I love you, I miss you, you're important to me, just with a simple image of something like that. So she's one.

Speaker 1: 12:02

And then when I came to Southwest Florida, I connected with a woman here that I always say she's my Karen of Southwest Florida and same thing. I mean we can. She'll FaceTime me. At the worst times I'm like, literally I don't have a brow on, I haven't brushed my teeth, like I have last night's makeup on, but it's like you take the call and you have the conversations and you're connected and again there's just love and acceptance and those are the kinds of friendships that are truly life giving and you need to have at least one of those in your life.

Speaker 3: 12:38

Yes, I agree, and I believe, as I've sat with this series and I've sat with the Lord and I've sat with Scripture, I think this is what he's calling us to in Christian community to be that vulnerable and that transparent and that honest with people. And we struggle with that because through our faith, we might get these ideas that we have to be somebody that we're not, but that's exactly who we're not supposed to be. So I'm just so excited to continue in this series and examine that. And, women and girls who are listening, think about that, think about that person, that close friend.

Speaker 3: 13:10

And how did you get there? I bet you have some hours log with one another, right, you spent some time together and it naturally grew into over time, this relationship that brings you great joy. And if our relationship with other believers isn't bringing us great joy, what are we doing right? Jesus, he's the source of our joy, and if you have joy, if you have the source of joy in you and I have the source of joy in me we should be bringing each other great joy.

Speaker 1: 13:36

And speaking of joy, I love that you brought that up. A week or so ago I had a client, who was now a dear friend, message me. She's like hey, I have this young girl going through some things. She really needs to be loved on and she wants to be around horses. Would it be okay if I brought her out? I'm like Absolutely.

Speaker 1: 13:54

And we spent an hour. She was hugging on me, I'm loving on her playing with the horses, just being in the presence, and it was as much of a beautiful encounter for me as it was for that child, as it was for the horses as well as my dear friend that arranged for this to happen. And one of the things I said was, when you have joy in you, the joy that comes from Jesus, you want to give it away, because when you're giving away your blessings, it's not depleting you. It's quite the opposite, like it overflows your cup when you give what he's given you away. So I love the idea of highlighting the importance of joy and what that looks like to experience that and then give it away so others can experience it too.

Speaker 3: 14:38

Thank you for sharing that and, as you did, I'm just seeing Jesus pouring out of you. That's what it's about. He wants to transform our hearts, and you're so right. If we're doing this thing right, we should not feel depleted. We should feel the equal measure of joy that we are giving away. And so, as we've been looking at Paul and preparing for this series, we noticed right off the bat that on his road to Damascus, he encountered Jesus and he heard from Jesus. He heard the voice of Jesus and through this experience, he began to experience this transformational process on the inside of him. And I know a little bit of your story, and I know that in your story you had this moment where you heard the words look up, and that was a turning point for you, and I would love for you to share with our listeners more about that story.

Speaker 1: 15:27

Yeah, I'm actually going to get a little emotional. I was watching so you think you can dance last night and dance was a huge part of my life but one of the girls performed. It was very emotional. The judges were crying and then she started to talk about Twitch. He was a dancer very famous. Just the joy that he brought and represented was just so profound and undeniable and he ended up committing suicide and I laid there and I cried, laying next to my husband. I'm thinking.

Speaker 1: 16:02

At one point I was in such a dark place that I thought suicide was the answer. Here is this beautiful man, married with children, vibrant, vivacious, just living this beautiful life and bringing so much joy to other people. And behind that was a suffering that was so deep and so dark that suicide was his ultimate decision and unfortunately for him, he was successful. And it just made me think. There are so many people out there currently suffering in a darkness and they don't know who Jesus is, they don't know that he is life, he is light, he is hope, he is love.

Speaker 1: 16:43

And fortunately for me, my attempt was unsuccessful and in that emergency room, as I'm lying there and closing my eyes, fully aware of what's going on and hearing all these voices talking about me as though I'm not actually there. And I remember hearing Look Up Child, and it was such a soft and gentle voice but very distinct from any other whisper. So it wasn't like oh, was that my husband? Or oh, was that the nurse? No, in that moment I knew with absolute confidence and clarity that it was Jesus saying Look Up Child. And in that moment I had an option to actually look up and his hand was extended and I could reach for that hand and see what happens, or I could just stay within my hurt, within my darkness, and let things unfold the way that I had hoped they would unfold. But I chose Jesus. I chose to reach up, to grab his hand, to look up. And he sat me on solid ground and in my book I talk about it. You and I talked about it.

Speaker 1: 17:54

From that moment on, I have been choosing to show up, dig in and do the hard work in my life to continue rising and, just like Jesus did for me in that moment, I am turning around and extending the hand for other women, because I know what it's like to be in that struggle. I know that in most cases, if we could just have one person believe in us enough to help us feel a mustard seed of faith, a mustard seed of strength to take one step forward. We can build on that. So that was a pivotal moment for me. Not that I didn't know him before, but now it was like it was relevant and real and I was in a very personal relationship with him. He left the 99 to come after me. He showed up there audibly to say you are this important, look up. So that was really profound.

Speaker 3: 18:46

I love that so much and thank you for sharing your tears with us, to not be afraid to share tears, and I do believe that is one of the places where we grow in connection with others, and I want to hold that moment and I also, at the same time, I'm getting really distracted by your super cute nails. You keep wiping your eyes and I'm like her nails are so cute.

Speaker 1: 19:08

That's hilarious, because the call I was on prior to this she's like wait, can I see your nails? They're so cute.

Speaker 3: 19:14

Yeah, they are. They're super cute. They're standing out there. Joy Statement, joy Pocket of joy, so funny. From tears to joy, from tears to joy.

Speaker 3: 19:24

And I love that. He said look up, child, because we are children of God, and that's how he sees us. We are his children. And so, paul, you know he knew God beforehand too. He was living for God. He just had it all wrong. He had it all upside down, and so Jesus was. You know, hey, paul, why are you persecuting me? And then Paul ends up blind from the light that he encountered when he encountered Jesus. And so after, when he regains his sight, it's like this physical picture of seeing everything different that he was blind, he couldn't see, and now he sees everything different. And I remember, when you and I were originally talking and you were sharing some of your story with me, you had shared how, beforehand, you were more so, seeing your faith as you were, as this religion of to-dos that you needed to do to be good with God. But then, after that moment, and you just talked about that relationship, things changed for you. You started seeing things different. Would you tell our listeners a little bit more about that?

Speaker 1: 20:19

Yeah, you would kind of alluded to it a few moments ago, talking about, you know, being perfect Christians and having to portray a specific image, and I think, with the religion, that kind of conditioning and that misinterpretation of what Christianity was. I thought that you had to go through a human person here to gain the permission to talk to him, and that is not true. And then the idea of if I'm not perfect, then he's not going to have time for me, and again, that is not true. We are all imperfect.

Speaker 1: 20:58

Jesus is the only one that is perfect and I think, if we can embrace our imperfections and show up as that messy, vulnerable, real version, that is what creates this invitation and this sense of permission for other people to be like okay, like she's not so different from me and she's got access to him and he's loving her and she's sharing this joy. And just look at what she's done and what she's doing and she's giving all the glory to him. Who is this? And he becomes something that is substantial and significant and relatable. It's like you can almost just reach out and touch him. He's that real. And when I started to allow myself to be messy, to be vulnerable, to stumble over my words to cry. That's when women started to say like, okay, like I want to know more, like she gets it, I can see myself in her and she's got access to something that's changing her. What is it I want to?

Speaker 1: 22:01

know, I want to know. So good. And when my ideas and my thoughts and my understanding changed, then, all of a sudden, how I'm speaking, how I'm thinking, how I'm behaving is changing and that's what started to instill that curiosity and other people to want to know more too. And we can do that. We can do that, we can be responsible for doing that.

Speaker 2: 22:25

Yes.

Speaker 3: 22:25

Yes, that is so beautiful. And I want to just pause here for a minute listeners with you and point to a couple of things that Melanie has said, like backing up to her sharing a portion of her story of a failed attempt at suicide. And you know, women, she's talking to you saying, hey, you know God is real and he's there and he wants to meet you where you are. Girls are struggling with thoughts of suicide. Your victory becomes their victory. And then also what Melanie shared their listeners about that vulnerability to be honest with others. It not only draws others in, but it also connects you with them in a deep way, and we're going to talk about that more in just a minute. But this is also the recipe. It's the recipe for connecting with the girls in your life. They want the authentic you.

Speaker 3: 23:13

And this is another place where, in our churches, we can get this idea that we need to be the person who has it together, because we're the older woman, right, and we're going to invest in this teen or this young woman or this girl, and we feel like, oh, I have to have all the answers. And sometimes that mentality is what stops us, because we're like I don't have all the answers. So I can't do this, but really, what the next generation is craving more than ever is authenticity. They want you to be honest and when you say you know what I'm a mess, they go oh, wow, really. Oh, I shared something really vulnerable with the teenager I got together with I think it was yesterday and she goes. Really I said, yes, I did that yesterday, but you have a beautiful community of women there.

Speaker 3: 24:00

We see in Paul's story that his encounter with Jesus led him to people. The rest of his story, the rest of the book of Acts, is him finding himself with people, growing in deep community with them. I mean, if you read his language and the letters that he wrote, it's so beautiful the way he genuinely loved these people, like he loved his right arm. And so you have this beautiful community that you are growing through. She Will Rise and I would just love for you to share about that role more about that role of vulnerability and honesty with God and with others, and how you see that playing out there in your community.

Speaker 1: 24:40

Yeah, I tell you, community is so incredibly powerful. In my book I talk about, you know, you've got to find your people, you've got to find your church, because God created us to do life together in community. But a certain type of community and I think the younger girls and when I was younger this was something that I struggled with like where do I fit in, where do I belong? I don't have what she has, I'm not as smart as she is, I'm not as pretty as she is, I don't have the kind of money that they have. And you start to get into this comparison that will squash any hint of joy that you may have and you start to isolate and retract and go inward. And it was such a conflict for me because I was a performer, I was a dancer and I had to be out and smiling and doing and putting on this image and I never felt like I belonged to a community because I was very outside of that at all times. And going through my struggle, I had posed at one point like, hey, I wish I had a community, a tribe, a wolf pack, like whatever that looks like. I wish I had some version of that. And then, after my failed suicide attempt. I was craving it even more and I decided to build it, like I don't have it, I can't find it, I'm going to put it out there and see what happens. And, fortunately for me, my husband was incredibly supportive. Like, just do it, it's the worst that can happen. I'm like the worst is nobody shows up, like, oh my gosh, right, they did. And what I want to encourage the younger girls is you don't have to have a million followers, you only need one or two really good, vulnerable, raw, authentic, honest girls to do life with.

Speaker 1: 26:34

And that's how the show rise community started. And at first, you know, a lot of women showed up because they're interested, like what is this? But then, as the season progressed, we ended up with a core of six or eight and they stuck around. And you know, it started out like they came because book club is what I, what I, launched. It started out for book club, but they stayed because it was far more than a book club. It was permission to be real. It's coming, your pajamas, messy bun, last night's makeup, we don't care, just show up so we can love on one another. And the permission to be vulnerable became a non-negotiable and it was understood.

Speaker 1: 27:16

And I think when we think about community, we think about structure, we think about okay, checkboxes, what am I going to wear? I don't have the right outfit. Is my hair okay? I'm not really feeling this. Those are the moments you want to show up and the show rise community. And just the other day, in a conversation at a table, there was a new girl and she's like I really want to come and check this out. And another girl was like what do I wear? Whatever is you, you wear. And the girl's like see that, come as you are, like she really means it and that's what community is about. That's what community is about.

Speaker 1: 27:54

And Paul talks about you know, having this need to be with other believers, to be supported and loved and encouraged. And the show rise community is a great example of that. And what I love is there is women. There are women coming through this who build that confidence and sense of knowing and being rooted in truth, that then they start these little groups as well. So do it, take the risk. It's worth it. You show up as the version of what it is you need and become her. Then, all of a sudden, other women will want that too. The girls will want that too, and you can just change the whole dynamic of what community even means.

Speaker 3: 28:33

So beautiful and I believe that what you're describing, what it takes, is being willing to not only be uncomfortable, as you said, but also be awkward, because if we're not used to being vulnerable, being vulnerable can feel awkward and putting ourselves out there. I was in a community when I first came to truly follow Jesus. I joined a community that was called Celebrate Recovery and I got in this thing called a step study and 20 women were signed up. The group was so big they had to divide us into two groups. We had to split us up because we're too big, so we had two groups of 10.

Speaker 3: 29:07

You guys, at the very end, at the very last, like they do, like this whole kind of celebration that you've made it through the end, there was four of us left, two leaders and two girls, two groups, and that's all there was. If you invite a room and then, like two people show up, celebrate it, like Melanie was saying, that's all we need, we need one other body, that's all we need. And if you have a room, show up and then like people just stop coming, don't be discouraged, like maybe God wants to do a special thing amongst a smaller thing. So I'm grateful that you shared those pieces, and so we always like to have we started this last series a get real moment where we ask our guests to be a little bit more vulnerable and be honest with us, because we want to encourage that.

Speaker 3: 29:53

So from our brave conversation cards, we have conversation cards for every series we do. There's a question, and it's do you experience feelings of loneliness? When or where do you feel it most?

Speaker 1: 30:05

That's such a great question because I think everyone battles that, but those who are willing to acknowledge it and name it for what it actually is can move through it in a very different way. So being alone is something that I am still learning to do. I'm not one that will go out and sit in a restaurant and eat by myself. You know I'm not going to pal around at a store by myself like I need someone with me. Being alone was very uncomfortable, but being alone and loneliness are two very different things and I had them enmeshed. I couldn't pull them apart. Now I am okay being alone, being by myself, but it's also important to recognize that if you don't know the difference between the two, you can't make that, that you can't differentiate what this means. You can be in a crowd of people, you can be holding hands with someone that you love and still feel loneliness. So that loneliness is something that comes from within and I feel that in order to overcome that and to be able to process it, hold space for it and honor it, we have to be in a relationship with Jesus, because when everything else is stripped away, that loneliness is satisfied and nourished through your relationship with Him, understanding who he says you are and that intimacy, that true, unconditional love that you can have with Him. So when I experience loneliness now, it doesn't send me spiraling.

Speaker 1: 31:47

I will say you know what I'm feeling? Lonely right now, there is a void, there is something missing. Let me sit with this, let me. I'll put on a worship song, I will pray, I will journal, I'll go out in the barn with the horses. What is it?

Speaker 1: 32:03

And usually I can identify something specific. You know, being away from family, I need to hear my brother's voice, that loneliness has set in because there was a missing of someone that I love so much. I just seem to hear his voice. So, being able to recognize when it is loneliness, don't hide from it, don't run from it, don't try to stuff it away. Just, I am feeling not, I am, but I am feeling lonely. Acknowledge it and embrace it and spend some time with it to understand what it's telling you, other than you know how to respond in a way that's healthy, and that is something that has taken me a lot of years to get to. And when it happens now, I'm okay to embrace it and work through it, which is a very empowering position to have, and I love being on this side of it to be able to show other women what that looks like too.

Speaker 3: 32:57

And do you think that is so valuable? And women listening this is something that you can pass on to girls is paying attention to. What are your feelings indicating to you, what are your feelings trying to tell you, versus shove them down or just not acknowledge what's behind them. There's power in acknowledging that. I'm so glad that you brought that to the conversation. And also when you were sharing about being in a room and feeling lonely.

Speaker 3: 33:21

I've been in rooms where I'm surrounded by Christian women and I feel lonely and it shouldn't be that way. And so, thinking back to when you were talking about vulnerability and honesty and like bringing a group together and helping them see like it's really good to be vulnerable and honest, this is why, with all of our conversations, we encourage you to read what we call the guardrails for brave conversation listeners, because this is what's going to set the tone for your conversation, by saying, hey, this is how we're going to keep this conversation on track, which is going to take us somewhere, because we want to be transformed by this conversation. And then it becomes this life-giving conversation versus this oh, we just all sat here and told everybody what we thought they wanted to hear, and then we go home and no one got anything and everybody still feels lonely.

Speaker 1: 34:03

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 34:04

So bringing that authenticity into it. Now you wrote a book you've mentioned it, I've mentioned it. It's called Unsilenced and in that book you share painful childhood experiences and false beliefs about yourself that eventually led to unhealthy adult behaviors. And I just have to ask you this question I read your book and it was so good. I want to make sure that I say it's got all these counseling elements in it. I've read books when it's like counseling in a book. This is another one of those books. It's like counseling in a book and listeners.

Speaker 3: 34:33

At the end of each chapter she has these hearts and it's kind of like the summary of what you should do after reading this chapter. And this is where I feel like discipleship can come in, because you can literally get Melanie's book, you can read her book and you can take each of those chapter ends and look at those hearts and kind of highlight a few of them. And the next time you're together with a girl they're a great meaningful conversation starters like having these conversations. But back to my question. My question for you is if you had a trusted woman because these are childhood things if you had a trusted woman in your life at that point who helped you process those experiences in light of God's character, hope and truth. How might things have?

Speaker 1: 35:10

changed for you? This is such a loaded question because I did have really good women around me, but because of my fears of being vulnerable and exposing the messy parts, I didn't invite them in. So not only do you need to have these kinds of women around you, but you need to get to a place and this comes from your vertical focus, how you view yourself through the eyes of love which comes from Jesus to know that in your mess you are still loved and worthy. In your hard moments it is not too much for the right people to love you through. And I didn't know that then. And I had an unresolved abandonment wound.

Speaker 1: 36:00

That came from a few things, but it was definitely seated from my dad leaving and not being able to make sense of it. So it taught me to be silenced, to become a people pleaser, because if he left, then others are going to leave too. So even though I had these beautiful women around me aunts, my grandmother, my mom, my dance teachers I didn't feel like I could open up when I learned that it's okay to be vulnerable and messy and I'm not the only one with that and that's where the whole unsilence like find your bold and courageous voice to say you know what? I don't have it together today. I made coffee, forgot to put the glass under there. It was a mess. You know what. This is what it is.

Speaker 1: 36:47

Or you know, hey, sometimes I think I have my life together, but then I'm spinning the toilet paper in both directions and it just won't unravel. Like do I have it together and that's okay. And when you have access to these women and you are willing to invite them into your mess, that's what changes the whole dynamic. And if I could go back and open my mouth and be unsilenced in those moments, I would not have struggled the way that I did. But at the same time, I'm also grateful for every aspect of it, because God is fulfilling a promise. He's using the pain for his purpose, my mess for his message, and I can bring glory to God and have these kinds of conversations and help the girls who are in that moment, struggling with the same thing, understand that that's temporary and there is a woman out there who can be a trusted partner, who was willing to listen, who was willing to meet you in that mess, and you only have to invite one right person in to change everything and it's possible.

Speaker 3: 37:47

Hey, man, so good, so good. And this is why we exist listeners, this is why Brave Girls Gather exists, because I can relate, melanie. I had women who I know. If I would have said, hey, can we talk? Yeah, I probably would have been like heck, yeah, let's talk. You know, but it just wasn't normal, it wasn't normalized. It was like you're over here, I'm over here, I sit in my pain, I maybe share with my teenage friend who has no idea how to help me through that.

Speaker 3: 38:19

And so this is why we want to create these spaces listeners for you. We want to give you these tools and resources for you to create the spaces for girls to gather and talk about life and faith and process hard things in light of the gospel. Is every girl going to open up about everything? No, but will you build a relationship with one or two girls who are going to be willing to share hard things, and might you get the possibility it's going to be highly likely that you're going to get that chance to speak something into her heart that she needs to hear, to help her reframe the things that she has navigated or is navigating. And so you, melanie, have a new book project that you have been working on. There's something coming and I would just love to give you a minute to share about that with our listeners.

Speaker 1: 39:05

I feel like the last question was like the perfect segue for this. So in Unsilenced, you know, I'm sharing my unfiltered, raw story and my hope was that one woman would read it and she could be like, oh my gosh, she gets it. There is hope, I don't have to stay where I am. Through that, what I have learned? The truth is there are many of us with stories. Everyone has a story and it deserves to be told. And when you take your story and you share it, it then becomes a testimony that not only can glorify God but can potentially help one woman to see that she can achieve this too. It can change the trajectory of her life. It can give her just the slightest glimpse of hope, of light to take one step forward.

Speaker 1: 39:56

So this next project is a co-author collective and it is 13 other women who have beautiful stories that needed to be told, and God put it on my heart to put it out there and there were yeses, and now this book is coming together. It is beautiful and it is empowering and it is emotional and it is moving, and there are such diverse stories that are in the pages of this book and what it comes down to is understanding that maybe you are not stuck, maybe you are perfectly placed. So be where your feet are, because, no matter what God is going to use you in that moment and you may not see it now, but a week, a month, a year, 10 years down the road, you're going to reflect back to that moment. You're going to be like, ahh, he's using it now. It did have purpose.

Speaker 1: 40:52

So the book is called Perfectly Placed Be where your feet are. And I am noticing, and the celebration that we're having is a celebration of radical courage, because it does take radical courage to embrace the truth that you're not stuck, that you're perfectly placed. It does take radical courage to say this story does have value and I'm going to give it a voice and I'm going to share it. It does take radical courage to show up every day and simply live life, because it's hard. So maybe you're not stuck, maybe you too are perfectly placed. So be where your feet are and just embrace who he is and who you are because of what he's done.

Speaker 3: 41:35

Hey, man, and hearing you use those words perfectly placed it just goes even with this series that we're in right now, because you are perfectly placed within the arms reach of people. The name of this series is called Intersections, because your life is intersecting with people that God is calling you to, to give to and to receive from, but we're so busy and we're so distracted and we're so committed to comfort that we miss it. And this isn't like a 2015 thing or a 2018 thing. This is like a 2024 thing, where we've gradually gotten more and more and more and more and more comfortable with being alone and feeling like our technology connection gave us what we needed and it didn't. So we're going to wrap this thing up the way that we always do, which is with the scripture roundtable, and the scripture that we chose for this conversation is First Corinthians, 13, 1-8. And the reason why we chose this scripture is because Paul wrote these verses and Paul before these verses, paul, before his encounter with Jesus, had the kingdom upside down. He was all about power and overthrowing and using aggression and anger to forward the kingdom of God, and now he's talking about this crazy thing called love, and it just shows up the radical transformation that can happen when we let Jesus fully in to do the work he wants to do. And so these are the verses here.

Speaker 3: 43:06

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging symbol. And if I have prophetic powers and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give all I have and if I deliver up my body to be burned but I have not love, I gain nothing. Love is patient and kind. Love doesn't envy or boast, it's not arrogant or rude, it doesn't insist on its own way, it's not irritable or resentful. It does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never ends, and in some of those versions it says love never fails. And so, melanie, I would love to know what stood out to you in these verses when you read them.

Speaker 1: 43:56

What I think is really important to put into practice is the words on these pages are simply words, until you extract them and there's application, that they then become relevant, and one of the things and this is verse is actually in my book. One of the things that I encourage you to do is, when you read this, instead of saying, love is patient, but I am, I am patient, I am kind, I do not envy and take ownership of it. This is how we're called to love. This is how Jesus loves us, and when we can become this kind of love, it shapes how we think, it shapes how we behave. It shapes how we interact, how we show up in our life and the lives of others. So love is this most beautiful gift that we're given and at the end of the day, we don't have it. We've gained nothing, we are nothing.

Speaker 1: 44:50

So when I think about this verse and changing out the love is to, I am all of a sudden I feel this, this spark, this passion, this desire to out there and share it. And if we can do more of that with the words in this book, making it part of who we are, then we can't help but share that kind of love that we're called to share in that way. So that's how I apply this verse. It's how I use the Bible in general. I want it to be real and relevant and relatable, and simply reading it as black and white on the book it doesn't do much. My Bible is messy. There's a chapter in my book Messy Bibles. Get in there, mark it up, make notes, put dates, scribble, make it real and come to life so you can extract it, apply it and become it, because that is going to spark that curiosity and other people to learn more.

Speaker 3: 45:44

Yeah, so true, and it makes me think about how, even going back to the beginning of our conversation, when you were talking about religion and seeing God a certain way, and then having this encounter with Jesus and now having this relationship with him, I think that sometimes we can make truth head knowledge and we go. Okay, this is head knowledge and I need to go live out the head knowledge. But that's weighty and that's hard. But Jesus told the Apostle Paul when he encountered him on the road to Damascus. He said why are you persecuting me? To persecute Jesus's people was to persecute him. That means he is in them and so he is in us.

Speaker 3: 46:23

So when we say I am patient, I am kind, we're calling out Jesus in us to come alive in us. It's not dependent on me, it's dependent on him and he's in us. And so, listeners, I just want to encourage you in that, to remember Jesus in you and when, like Melanie said, when you were reading the word, interact with the word, be transformed in the word, become the word and then go live the word. So, melanie, we like to close out every conversation with one question and that is what are you taking away, like, what are you taking away from this conversation that you need to remember tomorrow, and what are you going to do differently because of it? Because we want to come together and have meaningful conversations that change us, not just have a conversation. So what's your takeaway?

Speaker 1: 47:12

The key takeaway is really connection and I love that. You said we get so comfortable being in this comfort zone that we miss out on all the beautiful opportunities. So you had brought my look up child moment and when you think of technology like we're constantly looking down, I want to continue to be challenged to look up. Look up from my phone, look up from my Bible, look up from whatever is consuming me and commanding my attention, to make eye contact with a human and have interaction and engagement and connect on a vulnerable and authentic level that it plants a seed and it leaves two individuals, myself included, to be changed. So take that look up and apply it to all the things and get uncomfortable, because when you look up and make eye contact with a human, it's going to be uncomfortable but that's okay. That's okay. Let it be what it is, Be perfectly placed and embrace the opportunity when you look up to make a connection.

Speaker 3: 48:14

I don't want to take away from that moment because it was so powerful, and that's fine. I'm stealing it. I'm going to write it in my planner. Look up, it's going to become my thing in the week ahead. Practice, look up, practice. Look up. Be awkward, be uncomfortable, practice, look up so good. Thank you so much, melanie. This has been so amazing. I knew it was going to be so good, but really it's even better than I thought it was going to be. Thank you so much for joining us. It was an honor. Thank you so much for the conversation. I loved so much of what Melanie had to share and hope that you did too.

Speaker 3: 48:45

If someone came to mind as you were listening, pass this episode onto them. And if you have not yet made a review of our podcast, would you do us a huge favor and go ahead and do that? It helps others find our podcasts and encourages more women to have meaningful conversations with the girls in their life, and that is what this is about. That's why we're doing what we're doing to not only encourage you, but to also inspire you to go and have conversations that matter with the girls around you, and you can do that in so many ways. You can take things that we've talked about and you could bring it up in conversation with the girls in your life. You can do something like when I mentioned Melanie's book and how the end of each chapter has these bullet points. You could do that with any book that God is using in your life. You could highlight some things. That's something that my spiritual mama did with me. She would just bring me things and say, here, I just wanted to give this to you, or she would share something with me that God had shown her. That's one of the most meaningful ways that you can encourage the girls around you. And then also, we create tools and resources to help you do this, and we have tools and resources under this intersection series.

Speaker 3: 49:55

There is a leader guide and conversation cards. You can download that on our website. We're going to link it in the show notes for you. There is a Bible study that is coming out in Intersections Bible Study that you can do with a girl in your life or the girls in your life, and we encourage you to pick that up and do that. And we love you guys and we're so glad that you join us. Each series we have more conversations to come in you guys. They're just going to keep being incredible. So if you haven't subscribed to the podcast, go ahead and do that now, because we don't want you to miss a single episode. We'll see you back here next week for episode two in the Intersection series.